was first challenged by toyota or honda and they realized we can't just immediately become toyota because we'll lose our core base of gm buyers. they opened saturn. it's the fastest growing car retailer of all time to mimic mr. ackman. and where did it get gm? retail is a much tougher business than people realize. the number of retailers that have not got through a transition is monumental. i just question whether they have the balance sheet, the preferred yesterday fell off the cliff. the preferred is smarter. >> also, the number of sales per square foot that ackman started, it didn't strike me as much. $270 per square foot. i went into the data base of sales per square foot. it didn't strike me as a goal to aspire to. >> apple is the highest there is. >> 6,050. i went down the value chain. i didn't get to macy's. publixs $480. >> amazing rotisserie chicken. a guy at that takes bags to your car. >> publix is above everybody. >> whole foods -- >> to your point on square footage, at the news stores it's significantly more than the old stores. it's up dramatically from -- so that's